Curse

The Mad Addict · Feb 17, 2010, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I know how everyone says that discordway is the best hero team for pretty much all areas and I agree for when I am playing on my necro and I have a steady stream of hexes and conditions flying everywhere, but what about when I am playing on my warrior? I need a team that can buff me while also being able to kill things effectively. Currently I am using a Jagged Bone MM, an Arcane Orders Derv, and a N/Rt healer with icy veins or w/e else I want to put on it. Having a team that can do damage while also not having to rely on my for bountiful hexes/conditions would be much appreciated if anyone could post it that would be awesome.

syphonus · Feb 17, 2010, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Addict

I know how everyone says that discordway is the best hero team for pretty much all areas and I agree for when I am playing on my necro and I have a steady stream of hexes and conditions flying everywhere, but what about when I am playing on my warrior? I need a team that can buff me while also being able to kill things effectively.

Everyone doesn't say that, because it isn't true. Discord is an ok hero build for a general PvE caster (excluding elite areas), but there's absolutely no reason to run it on melee.

You're on the right track, actually, thinking that buffs are the answer. Strong melee buffs such as SoH and Splinter Weapon make wars and sins tear shit up better than anything else out there. AoE attacks such as Whirlwind Attack and DB are key; all of that single target damage suddenly becomes a mob-destroying force. Put HB on your war and you'll see even more of a difference.

A few suggestions for your team:

I would swap the derv for an SoS rit with Splinter. OoP just ties up your hero too badly, and SW gives better results anyway.

I would get rid of the N/Rt as well. They were valued as heroes only because of their fantastic energy management via soul reaping, but they were marginalized by not having access to the powerful prot enchantments from the monk line. Ether Renewal does more for an ele in this respect than Soul Reaping did for necros; it allows your hero to spam the most important protections in the game at zero cost, while healing in huge spikes and maintaining useful enchants (like SoH), also at zero cost.

Icy Veins is a terrible skill anyway. And you don't have to feel married to Jagged Bones on the MM, there are actually tons of utility options you will probably find more useful.

**Marty Silverblade** · Feb 17, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Discordway isn't the best hero team for basically everywhere. People run it because Soul Reaping is awesome enough that they can roll through most of PvE without you having to have a brain.

I found these the other day; they were good but I'm in the process of modding them to fit in orders, curses, possibly other random ideas.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...o=Submit+Query

Chthon · Feb 17, 2010, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

Everyone doesn't say that, because it isn't true. Discord is an ok hero build for a general PvE caster (excluding elite areas), but there's absolutely no reason to run it on melee.

For that matter, there's no reason to run it on a necro either.

Anywho, the life of a warrior should be about getting lots of buffs, then generating lots of packets to multiply those buffs' effect.

For buffs, you'd like to be sitting under SoH+OoV/OoP+GDW all the time. Barbs and MoP are highly recommended. If you're all alone with the H+H, you'll have to settle for Splinter instead of GDW. Given the 3 hero limit, you may have to settle for only 2 buffs instead of 3.

For generating a lot of packets, you're basically looking at WW+100B, WW+DS, WW+CrudeSwing(+Earthshaker), or WW+Cyclone. If you have a human necromancer along, WW+100B is far and away the best option because they can run an AP+MoP build to trigger huge damage off your combo. Since a hero is too dumb to AP very well, you've got more options for a H+H situation.

beagle warrior · Feb 17, 2010, 11:27 PM // 23:27

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team thats what ive been using. its pretty similar to your build and it works great

syphonus · Feb 18, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

For that matter, there's no reason to run it on a necro either.

It's pretty good for 1234'ing your way through tedious VQ's, at least.

AtomicMew · Feb 18, 2010, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by beagle warrior

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team thats what ive been using. its pretty similar to your build and it works great

ER orders is complete trash in that build. You're hardly getting much use out of it when you have no physical heroes to even take advantage of it. Better to take another SW or something. Also, that build has a serious lack of defense, making it only good for steamrolling areas which are already well-paved anyway.

marmar256 · Feb 18, 2010, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Umm on the topic of AoE Damage, a warrior with daggers and WE as the elite is very good at single and AoE damage.
Just something simple like.
Asuran Scan, Jagged Strike (any lead attack but JS has smallest rc), fox fangs (or wildstrike for unblockable, but FF has smaller rc again), Death Blossom, WE, Flail, SY! and 2 whatever you really want like maybe a rez and Pi or something.

Just my 2 cents but tbh, 100b is crap :P gogo DB :P

Tenebrae · Feb 18, 2010, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Well for a warrior pretty much anything that buffs you with SoH + SW + Orders. Use with Asuran scan and just destroy things ...

syphonus · Feb 18, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by marmar256

Just my 2 cents but tbh, 100b is crap :P gogo DB :P

No, HB is not crap.

By itself it might be unremarkable; many skills are without their obvious compliments. But even just taking WW into account you should realize its effectiveness, considering that every hit triggers the additional damage.

Also, I'm sure you already realize your build is a (severely) gimped sin.

marmar256 · Feb 18, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Hmm how is it severly gimped sin? Most sins dont use daggers as they are all scythe noobs? or bow noobs?

And its a fun build that can out damage any sword build you can find. You said yourself 100b is only effective with other skills like WW attack and tbh its only really effective if you can ball everything up into one spot and get some MoP. Otherwise i find 100b to be a wasted elite, its just not as good as everyone says it is imo. Dragon Slash > 100b imo for sword.

But anyways that dagger build is just a bit of fun and a change if you get bored with running what you usually run.

So as i said its just my 2 cents no one else has to care but thats my opinion.

Neo Atomisk · Feb 18, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

from my experience, discord works fine on a warrior, asuran scan + the plethora of conditions warriors can inflict makes for a great setup... ontop on the necro's own skills. I find that when it comes to pure spike damage, warrior can even beat the default discord caller. I've found from experience that running discord on a warrior works great, you just need to bring conditions and asuran scan.

The Scorpion Knight · Feb 24, 2010, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by marmar256

Umm on the topic of AoE Damage, a warrior with daggers and WE as the elite is very good at single and AoE damage.
Just something simple like.
Asuran Scan, Jagged Strike (any lead attack but JS has smallest rc), fox fangs (or wildstrike for unblockable, but FF has smaller rc again), Death Blossom, WE, Flail, SY! and 2 whatever you really want like maybe a rez and Pi or something.

Just my 2 cents but tbh, 100b is crap :P gogo DB :P

Agreed, I usually run Jagged strike, wild strike, and death blossom for attacks. Flail, SY, etc. I also bring I am unstoppable some some extra armor and it prevents KD. You'll tear through vanquishes with this and Sabway.

upier · Feb 24, 2010, 02:43 PM // 14:43

The reason why daggers are also pretty darn insane is that you can easily go with something like Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike and that removes blocking as one of things you need to worry about.

I'd also suggest an shadow step as one of your optional skills. It allows for superb aggro management even without flagging your h/h.

syphonus · Feb 24, 2010, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The reason why daggers are also pretty darn insane is that you can easily go with something like Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike and that removes blocking as one of things you need to worry about.

I'd also suggest an shadow step as one of your optional skills. It allows for superb aggro management even without flagging your h/h.

Et tu, upier?

Daggers are insane, but as soon as a war picks one up he's just a fat sin with none of the perks that make sins excel.

Using Flail or Frenzy instead of Crit Agility is probably the biggest single problem, but that's huge in itself given the obvious and serious drawbacks of each. Either nullifies the war's armor advantage over the sin and makes them truly vulnerable by comparison. Flail requires a cancel, and Frenzy makes them into really squishy frontliners.

WE is less of a problem, but considering that sins don't require energy management at all makes it look silly by comparison. People running JS/FF/DB mostly know already that it marginalizes the use of MS, but the fact that a sin has elite utility options is another point to them.

WotA adds roughly 10 DPS and allows you to literally spam Scan as much as you want, even with the worst critical luck in the world-- as well as being a fail safe in case of deep enchant stripping. Battle Rage is super for IMS. MS still has a use in cases of prolonged AoE DB spamming(3+ hits). Flashing Blades, Skull Crack-- hell, Earth Shaker, they can all take that little square that WE is occupying on a war.

(But not Locust's Fury. That sucks.)

Really, there's just too many reasons sins do it better. Why do it on a war? They've got their own perks.

MasterSasori · Feb 24, 2010, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I wouldn't know the best combination but here are a few good heroes back up with reason why they complement wars.

SoS rits - Pack a good punch, can go heal or another support role, Splinter Weapon. I would definitely run this as part of my hero choice.

OoV Necro - Life Steal is awesome with Wars with IAS and AoE attacks. It is one of the most customizable heroes ever. Basically after Blood at 16, you can use it for just about anything else since the rest of blood is lackluster until the new update.

Dark Orders Necro - Dark Fury + OoP as an alternative for OoV. Can go for Smite secondary for SoH on 4 people if made right.

Smite Monks - Decent damage, cleaner, Strength of Honor, Support Healer with Smiter's Boon.

Minion Bombers and ER Infusers are also great. They don't particularly help wars more than other classes but since they're so good, you might want to use one.

Terek Zelta · Feb 24, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Did Sabway go out of style?

These days I tend to just use henchmen because I have crushes on Talon Silverwing, Mhenlo and Aidan/Billy Mays.

Some of these builds are cool and I'm definitely going to check out, but there's never been a reason for me to run anything but Sabway and Strength of Honor. Everything else is just fluff to me.

Orders are nice, but you don't need Dark Fury, even though it's sometimes cool to spam Sun and Moon -> Dragon Slash without FGJ. For me, I tend to favor casters, so typically, it's just me and an army of minions on the frontlines, making OoP and OoV meaningless.

I favor casters because they still have the best AI in my opinion.

As for what builds to run with your heroes: Dragon Slash is the winner and most generally useful for me. I just don't bother with Enraging Charge in normal mode, and that's important to keep in mind. I use either Flurry or Pious Haste to cancel Flail, which might sound weird, but it's normal mode, and those stances have the quickest recharge of any stances that don't rely on adrenaline. Using an adrenaline-based cancel stance with Brawling Headbutt and Save Yourselves on one bar will just mess you up.

Hundred Blades doesn't suck. Neither does Endurance Daggers. You're not a gimped sin with Endurance Daggers, it just feels and looks that way. My warrior with daggers tends to get marginally higher DPS than my sin with daggers, because my sin needs a zealous mod, while my warrior uses vampiric. It's reasonable to use vampiric on a sin, though, but even then, their damage will be roughly the same. My warrior tends to come out slightly ahead, because my sin's enchantments get easily stripped in the endgame areas, even with covers, it doesn't make a difference.

It's been a little while, but last time I played the game, Hundred Blades with a Mark of Pain/SS necro hero was stupidly overpowered. Even if they can't use Assassin's Promise, it doesn't matter, Mark of Pain's recharge isn't so unreasonable in practice.

Winterclaw · Feb 24, 2010, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Terek, once spiritway came around sabway lost favor for warriors.

Terek Zelta · Feb 24, 2010, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I can see that, but boo Spiritway anyway!

Has anyone tried to use the warrior heroes with their improved AI from a few updates ago? I remember warrior heroes used to use Flail, and then after the update, they stopped, so I didn't use them anymore. Warrior heroes still suck, right?

Bobby2 · Feb 24, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

WE Scythe is pretty damn awesome. Jora uses Bull's like a maniac.